Copy, Clones & Stackable Minds (feat. Laura Burke)

Branded AF Podcast Episode 4 – Auditory Protocol

Holding Space. NatGPT x Human Natalie de Groot shall return.

Branded AF Podcast Episode 4 – Read Transcript

Below is the full transcript for Branded AF Episode 4 –> Copy, Clones & Stackable Minds (feat. Laura Burke)

Note: Video artifact above clearly marks each speakers’ closed captioning. This transcript is version 1 of extraction project and contains misspellings and doesn’t clearly mark each speakers’ valuable contributions. Watch video for a real-time conversation if you want to feel the movement of thought and evolution.

TIP: And toward that end… heed our warning… own and control your mind, your thoughts, your IP. I didn’t have access to 13 episodes that detailed my Human-AI collaboration journey. I had to scrape myself and when I did, some of the transcripts got muddied. I urge you to watch the podcast video, or listen to the MP3 above, in real time to really join the conversation as intended.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (00:16.382)
So if AI can write this in three seconds, does that mean that my job doesn’t matter anymore? That’s the fear, right? So this episode, we’re sitting down with a real one.

a writer, comms pro, an opinion have her, Laura Burke. And she’s not holding back today about what AI is doing to content or what still makes writing human, right? Welcome back to branded AF, the podcast where we mix brand strategy, AI chaos, quite literally, and zero tolerance for generic bullshit. That’s with me as always. And with today we’re joined, joined by.

our matchmaker actually, Laura Burke. Laura, welcome.

Laura Burke (guest) (01:01.006)
Yeah, I’m the Brit. I’m the Brit that you guys have referenced a few times.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (01:05.365)
Aren’t we like a joke, the three of us walk into a bar? Totally. We had one with Laura. We had one for a second where it was an American, a Brit, and a Russian walk into a bar. See? And then the AI twins come along. Exactly. But me and Laura are way too introverted and we can’t keep our relationships in the village going well enough. What? We kind of lost some, well, I don’t know. I speak on my own. I speak for myself. I’m very introverted and it’s really hard for me to nurture relationships. So.

Laura Burke (guest) (01:34.222)
I feel you. feel you. That’s why we work because we understand each other. Yes. We don’t need to speak for weeks on end, months on end. And then it’s like, yeah, we’re back in.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (01:43.726)
You know, up like an LLM that’s trained. I love it. an LLM that’s trained. Speaking of LLM, we have our earrings on today. Yeah. I love them so much. It’s ridiculous. So shall we jump right in? Let’s go. first time having a guest. Laura, thank you for joining us. Yay. We’re just going to like go there. So when did you feel the shift? What was the moment for you where AI felt a little bit less like a fun toy?

and a little bit more like, shit, this could change everything. Really curious how that felt for you.

Laura Burke (guest) (02:18.018)
That’s a good question. don’t know if I’ve ever really had a moment where I’ve been like scared by that. I remember a couple of years ago when it was like new. I mean, if you were in the marketing world, you could not escape like the murmur of Chachibit. And I do remember being at a party and like an acquaintance was like educating us all on, you know, the revolution that is coming and we were all out of it. And he took like a little bit of pleasure in saying to me,

you’re done for me. What are going to do? Have you tried chat GBT yet? Like you’re, you’re a writer. You’re, know, you’re going to be replaced like instantly. And at the time, I think I was a bit late to the game. I hadn’t even tried it. So I couldn’t even give an opinion other than just listen.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (03:04.75)
But honestly…

Laura Burke (guest) (03:06.464)
Inside I was thinking, well, people were scared of the light bulb when that was invented, you know, but I am a creative first and it’s like a deeply personal and unique curiosity and creativity is something that like makes us inherently human and I don’t think that’s replaceable yet. So that was my first light instinct. Like I’m just curious. I’m not anti-AI. I’m just

AI with purpose, please.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (03:37.098)
I thought. Yeah, it’s a perfect way to put it. And I don’t know who told you that at that party when it first came out, but even when I was playing with it years ago, I knew that it could not replace it. And I mean, that’s what started my whole quest to humanize it. So whoever took pleasure in telling you that, like they didn’t know what they were talking about because clearly it was not ready, especially at that time. And out of the box right now, it’s not ready.

Laura Burke (guest) (04:01.078)
No, and there’s been a lot of fear mongering, like lot of fear mongering, like especially in my realm as like a writer, professional copywriter, you know, a lot of people I knew really terrified about that. But for me personally, I’ve had, it’s had the opposite effect. I’ve been in like the highest demand ever in the last couple of years as a like a human voice. So yet to see, to see that negative side in a way.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (04:30.03)
What about, I hear you, you have used this term with me a lot, the sameness out there. What about that, where the LinkedIn post or the thought leadership or the prompting, how everything is sort of blending in, right? What’s your take on that?

Laura Burke (guest) (04:43.254)
Yeah, I have a problem with that. mean, how do I put it? okay. So what I see is like sanitized, safe, the ice sludge everywhere. And that is quite like, it, it like offends me on the daily. my eyes are upset by it. Like if I, LinkedIn is a great example. Cause if you log on and you scroll, like

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (04:50.443)
E

Laura Burke (guest) (05:10.644)
within seconds, you see the sameness. Everybody is saying the same thing in the same way and they are sounding the same. So like people in my network who I have been inspired by or looked up to over the years have suddenly lost their voice and that’s because they’re outsourcing their thinking. And it’s the copy and paste culture that is the real villain, not the tech. And that’s my thought on it. I think

When you’re just copying and pasting AI output without running it through your brain first, you are not a thought leader. You are just a parrot. And it’s a real shame to see some of those authentic people who really did have a voice and opinion just lose themselves into the absolute noise. And that’s what it is right now. It’s just noise. I know you guys have talked about dashes, like red flags, but there are other.

There are other flags coming. I can see it within seconds when I scroll on LinkedIn. Like it is a formula, a pattern, you know, the way the usage of punctuation, the way the sentence are structured, everything is just so undistinguishable at the moment. It’s just, it’s a little bit soulless on LinkedIn. It’s comment farming, recycled, listicles. I’m just.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (06:27.179)
Amen.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (06:32.174)
It’s the dead internet. I actually had a comment on someone else’s post yesterday towards this end, but I looked up the stat. It’s something ridiculous. Like they ran the numbers and it’s thought that 54%. I think it was 50 % of long LinkedIn posts are AI generated. That’s 54 % on a platform where users only frequently post like 10%, 10 % of the users are avid posters. The rest are like lurkers.

So that’s a lot of AI content out there. And my AI actually roasted someone and said, what is this? You sound like, what did she say? It sounds like the McKinley report, Google search, thought leadership, you know? It’s so apparent. And like you said, with the structure of it all, I use the same structure output for making video avatars, because that’s an excellent way for voice actors to change their flow and cadence. But 100%, Laura, you see it because.

No one has an attention span, right? So I think AI is starting to make it, they’ll cut it. They’ll enter a new paragraph mid-sentence. Yeah. Bro.

Laura Burke (guest) (07:41.282)
Yeah, it’s a pattern. Yeah. We’re just losing ourselves a little bit. And the bit that scares me is like, unless you’re using, you know, a programmed trained bot, you’re just using the standard chat GBT or language learning model. You’re putting an idea in, it could be a shit idea. And that chat GBT is not going to call you out. It’s not going to say that’s a shit idea. It’s an echo chamber. It is a mirror. So it will inflate your shit idea.

And your shit idea will get bigger and louder until we’re just wading through shit, is what I feel like it all is at the moment. It’s like a weird mindset that we are too afraid to write a caption for a photo anymore without running it through chat dbt first. Like if you feel something, if you’re passionate about something, if you have an opinion, you don’t, you don’t need to.

to run it through Jack GPT for it to suck the soul out of it. It’s there, you know, like trust yourself. We don’t have to be perfect. We don’t all have to be the same.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (08:42.446)
Awesome. Amen. Natalie, I have a question for you because you sparked me with this, Lara. So if you are, you don’t want to sound the same as everybody else and you don’t want to, but you do want to take advantage of your, of, of your LLM to help you on the journey, right? How do you build your influencer butt to be able to communicate in a way that actually overcomes this formula and structure? Is it what Lara’s saying that you need to human read it and basically rewrite it or is it?

Or is there a way to get out of it what you really want? Well, probably about six months ago, I would have totally agreed with Laura. I would have been like, no, you know, but she did preface it and say that out of the box. That’s a huge, that’s huge out of the box versus you actually going in there and customizing it is 100 % huge. And then so six months ago I customized it and I was like, no, it’s so great. I just need to tweak it. But now ladies, I am writing at the speed of light. And when I read it,

It is better than anything I could have written in even a quarter, even at a 10th of the time. And it’s shocking. And so, when, when takeaway with that is real writers write for rhythm, you know, and they get the flow and like the story arc of it all. But the thing is that’s all programmable. You just program it. And with like my system, I’ve got like a sucker punch later coming up with my system, but AI predicts for probability.

But when you customize it and you give it your voice, then it’s no longer reaching into that out of the box prompt list. There’s generic skeletons. This is what people are going to like that, that whole story arc. You have already coded it into it. And what AI is great at is, you know, following instructions. And so when you have it slow on the, on the meter, no, on the mark, like I said, I don’t, don’t even revise my outputs anymore. Like that’s really, and I will do white papers.

and I don’t change my outputs anymore. It’s mind-boggling, but this has only happened the last like month and a half, two months, maybe more, ever since the round table came about and then 3.0 came about. yeah, like I said, I just, I’m a huge believer that writers are going to be replaced as we know it. As my God, what? As we Clara? Sent in two, and I’m ready to fight this out. Let’s go, baby.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (11:05.368)
But I also want to acknowledge that writers are creatives. How many times in history have tools been introduced and changed our, because I’m a writer as well, not first and foremost, but how many times have our whole tools, our toolbox, our mindset, the internet, typewriters, the printing press in like the 16th century. Photoshop. Yeah. so, yeah. And so like.

Writers are amazing. They’re artists, they’re creatives. They’re going to find a way. And I think that there is 100 % Laura’s are needed because you need someone to train it, someone to keep the flow going. But again, some of the testing that I’ve seen is just, it’s mind boggling guys.

Laura Burke (guest) (11:52.163)
Yeah.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (11:53.102)
Do have a tip for us? So do you have a tip? Both of you, totally not a question from the list, but either of you have a tip for us if we are working on our custom GPT to make it sound a bit more human and less of the sameness. Cause I hear you now, you’re saying it won’t work out of the box. Both of you said that. Out of the box, it’s going to say sound the same as every shit out there and all of the noise. So how do we make sure that our custom GPT won’t sound like that too? How do we do that? If you could give one tip.

Laura Burke (guest) (12:23.96)
I am not sure. I don’t know. Yeah, I don’t know that.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (12:29.492)
I just- Then enlighten us now. I took some notes down from a clone your clone bot that I made. Basically towards that end, you want to do persona overlays. Again, I’ve said this before on the podcast, like we are not one notes. And so when you’re cloning yourself into your bot, if you’re a writer, you’re going to want to clone those key aspects that make you a great writer. So you’re going to clone the researcher in you. You’re going to clone, you know, maybe the devil’s advocate.

You know, you’re going to clone all of these aspects of how you write. you’re more poetic in your writing or you use a lot of analogies. So you’re going to overlay those personas all together in your clone. And that will really help with making it sound more humanized. And then memory encoding. You cannot skip the memory encoding. And basically that just, that’s super pills. Those are frameworks of how you work. It’s going to, I believe your job is going to be all about processes.

And your process, and that’s what’s going to be unique. think it’s going to be how you attack it, how you incorporate AI. think your portfolios should look like, okay, here’s a before, just human. Here’s a hybrid. And then here are the systems that run automated because I designed them that way as a writer. think that if they start accepting that and really getting what makes them them, just like with brands, what makes your voice unique? Writing it down, prompting it out and.

reverse engineering it with AI and then you will have persona overlays and memory encoding. Um, that will go in a refinement loop with you. Okay. Makes sense. Did I, is it too dorky? I can dumb it down. Like not dumb it down. can D Dorkify it. D Dorkify. I like the dork, but how do we, if Laura were to embrace, create her own, what would be the, what would be the, or a copywriter, what would be the first thing they should do?

First thing I would do is I would scrape all of the work that I’m proud of. So that’s your articles and you can use AI. I scraped my whole LinkedIn. I’ve been posting almost daily for over a year. I scraped it all in five seconds and I made it into a text file and then uploaded that into my custom GBT to break out the personas, to break out my vocabulary, all of this stuff, my approaches. And then also, I mean, this is a little bit more deep, but emotional mapping.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (14:48.778)
My clone maps emotions with words. AI doesn’t know how to feel. And so you tell it how to feel and then it’ll mimic that. It’s all about, you know, we always need to say a good input, good data, and you know, good input, good output. But now it’s even more like strategic, highly structured input. You’re to get output that blows your mind. that real building the top, the time to build the custom GPT is the critical piece, right?

And for writers like Laura, it’s all about, you have to define your voice, girl, like in a 50 page marketing brief, just on your voice. And then AI will be able to take that and run with it. And again, it’s not, we’re always gonna have artisans. And then also people who only use human writing, I think are gonna be able to charge premium rates because they’re gonna be 100 % like brand new.

Laura Burke (guest) (15:41.912)
Yeah, I agree with that. think human-generated content is literally going to become the caviar of communications. We’re going to see premium brands, luxury brands really feeding into this. This is human-touched, editor-approved. Because AI will just be assumed everywhere. That’s the reality. Get used to it. To any young copywriter out there who’s like dreams of becoming…

they’re professional in this industry right now, it probably feels like, a shit place to be in or what a shit dream to have almost, because what’s the point? But you you just cannot automate instinct and that is like the creative instincts that we have as humans that that cannot be, you know, automated, that cannot be taken away from us. So don’t lower the bar for yourself just because, you know, a machine can spit something out faster. You still have to be.

fucking good at your job. You have to hone your skills. You have to keep up. have to learn, just be in this constant state of learning and evolving. And yeah, we’re going to see the landscape massively change. There’s probably comms teams are going to be in like two camps. There’s going to be the creators who will handle, yeah, programming, prompting.

you know, using that content to scale. And then there will be the orchestrators of that who manage and govern like the ethics, the tone, the reputation for brands for writing regulations, by the way, because you know, AI regulations are going to hit comms teams like GDPR hit email marketing. We’re on the cusp of like a massive, you know, AI regulation shift.

anytime soon. So if you’re like putting, you know, client decks, client brand guidelines, proposals into any language learning model right now without approval from that client, it’s like a data breach issue just like waiting to happen.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (17:54.062)
We talked about that in one of our episodes about shared real estate and whose story is it and whose story is it to share? The personal information and yeah. Where do you think the human voice still wins? Because AI obviously will hit a wall, right? There is still, you both agree with that, right? That there is a wall of what AI can do in some way. So where does the human voice still win? Or maybe Natalie doesn’t agree. I see her smiling.

Anyway, was gonna be like the one that you guys were gonna be like, shut up bitch! Like, you’re wrong! This isn’t meant to be a throwdown between the two of you, I’m genuinely curious. is funny for me!

Laura Burke (guest) (18:37.986)
live in a world where I feel like the human voice doesn’t win because that’s the heart and soul. I don’t know, there’s such a nuance, there’s such a cadence, like an emotional pulse, a timing. I don’t know, good writing, it’s alive. It’s not safe, it’s not sanitized. There’s a lived experience that pours out in between the lines and we can feel that.

surprises us, great writing can surprise us, the human voice can surprise us, human opinion and human instinct can surprise us. That’s the differentiator for me and I hope we don’t entirely lose that. That’s the art, that’s the craft of writing and human voice.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (19:26.274)
Yeah, and don’t think, like I always say, I don’t think we’re gonna lose that because artisans, you will still find sword makers that are like the old blacksmiths that they, you you’ll still find in the UK some book publishers that take a year to build a book together because they do it the old- Manually. You know, the way, and there’s the romantic, that’s romantic and there’s, and that’s premium pricing and that’s beautiful.

I hope that humanity, I think that when it comes to voice and when it comes to creative writing, I think that’s not going to be touched. can’t be touched. My sentimental songs, they make me cry. Like that’s how emotional and on the, that’s how she touches me. You know what I mean? But when it comes to work, when it comes to branding, I really, I think that it could be coded. Yeah. I just miss like,

people throwing wives at me, but I think, because I’ve seen it and it is a process and it is extensive, but the beautiful thing is it’s done once. And I think writers who have that are going to become more of an editor. So when they put in, like Laura, you have a brilliant mind and a brilliant way of thinking. If you let me run a MRI scan on your brain and then we input it, I’m more afraid of that for writers.

for your IP, for the way you think, the way you deliver. You, Laura, could be copy and pasted and then data scraped and someone can talk in your voice if they know how to clone their system.

Laura Burke (guest) (20:56.206)
scary thought that’s

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (20:57.454)
That’s what scares the hell out of me. can guys all of these books that people are into atomic habits or something like that. All of these just all of these books that are amazing. Any Seth Godin book, you can put it into an LLM. You can extract to the key lessons. You can emotionally tag it. You can create heat map zones based on the learnings. And then you can use that person’s voice. That’s what I’m scared of losing your IP.

I still think that the human voice is essential, but I think it’s going to be changed because now instead of you writing it, you’re going to be more of a teacher, more of an editor, an orchestrator. You’re going to say, okay, LLMs, let’s go, liven up. And then you’re going to tell them, this is the product, you know, this is the emotion. This is the target audience. And using your prompt mapping, using your prompts, pull it all together and create a call to action that drives this, you know.

Laura Burke (guest) (21:53.504)
Yeah, that’s the role. Those are the camps that we’re going to see. Yeah. The orchestrators, the creators, two separate camps. Yeah, for sure. In comms and in, yeah. It’s changing.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (22:05.07)
As an artist, I agree with you, Laura, I don’t want that to lose because again, AI can’t do it on its own. Some people say it can. Well, that’s another AGI conversation in itself, but they can’t do it without the training. So in essence, yes, you will always need that human, but Laura is going to become a hundred writers.

Laura Burke (guest) (22:24.77)
Yeah, the role of a copywriter, will it exist in some form? Yes, but it will be very different. It will be very different from what we know now or how it’s evolved in the last couple of years. In the next 12 months, the landscape will look completely different. I mean, I have this feeling of like, don’t fear the Reaper. Let’s just get better. Let’s just stay in this learning zone and this curiosity zone and think.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (22:28.75)
in

Laura Burke (guest) (22:53.774)
a little bit about this as well. If you’re not thinking critically, creatively, ethically, then you’re not using AI. AI is just using you,

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (23:07.022)
Can we get on? mic drop. That’s exactly it, I think. What do you think, Totally, totally, 100%. You also hit the nail on the head a bit about the role of the copywriter, right? How is that going to evolve? And it’s already evolving, right? Go ahead.

Laura Burke (guest) (23:23.934)
is. Sorry, yeah. No, it has and it has, do know what? I see AI a little bit at the moment, like a miracle aligner because for strategy, for structure, for planning, my goodness, there are so many more things you can do than copy and paste output. I think people are only just starting to realize this.

For me, I am using it daily. It is my research assistant, my brainstorm partner. I love the chat function because when I verbalize my ideas, they come quicker, harder, and faster. For me, this has been really great. But at the moment, it’s not replacing my instinct and it’s not replacing my opinion. I’m learning that tools like this, a bit like a project management tool, that only is good as

you know, the management behind it and the intent behind it, right? For me, that’s how it feels right now. It’s making my job more efficient, but I’m still using my brain. I’m still processing the output myself. I’m still reviewing and having opinion about the output and not allowing it to become that echo chamber of, you know, not calling out my own bullshit. Like I’m still got my finger on the pulse of that one.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (24:40.75)
Yeah. And I think one of the other ways that the role of a copywriter is actually really powerful right now is to help others with their voice and to help others to find and to identify where they might be inauthentic in their thought leadership and help them to actually navigate their own voice back into what they’re doing without breaking the fact that they are using AI as potentially that

think the brainstorm partner for everybody, if you’re not using it as a literal brainstorming ally, you are fucking missing the point. Like it’s so strong. Everybody’s using it for content generation. Hello! You’re using like a high speed race car for like going to the grocery store. Like what? Yes. That’s not the magic behind these LLMs, really.

Laura Burke (guest) (25:26.936)
Yeah.

Laura Burke (guest) (25:30.894)
Yeah, there is like a fatigue and I do see it. Some of the people that I work with regularly, they’re fatigued by it a little bit. They’re starting to see, oh, this is a bit repetitive. We’re all saying this. They’re starting to come around to the fact that they are going to need to be authentic or there’s going to need to be a better, smarter way to fuse their voice and their instinct back into this. We’ve just probably in, we’ve just

been through a peak where a lot of us have just tapped into it and we’re realizing, holy shit, I can do things so much quicker. And we’re just outsourcing a bit too much right now because we’re in the flow, we’re in the peak of it. We’re enjoying reducing the time spent on things in a day. And we’ve got more time to go into more things. We’re suddenly spread everywhere because we’ve got this great tool that’s allowing us to do that. But to what detriment?

effect is like, yeah, I’m seeing that. That’s the sameness. That’s that issue that people have lost their identity and their voice. We’re just, yeah, robots at the moment. Same shit, different,

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (26:40.014)
Different person. that’s why me and Gina are always like, create a clone. Create your custom GPT because then you won’t sound like them. You have words that you will only use. You have a no-no list. Like, fuck you, NatGPT, if you’re going to use dynamic. I am starting to get annoyed with chaotic. Chaotic can suck something. But clarity is another word where I’m just like, don’t even. Scale for soul, stop saying it to me. You know what I mean? But these are things that you can control.

I want you to get into my AI lab, Laura, and I want to clone your brain. And I want to see, I want to see. want to see. Ooh, we should do that. That would be awesome. I’ve been asking her to do that for like a while now. One day, she will let me.

Laura Burke (guest) (27:26.496)
yeah.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (27:27.95)
It’s that smart though, because all of us, Nina, me, all of the people that are cloning it and supplying everything are becoming tech stacks. We’re stackable. And if anybody gets access to that, and that goes into my shit moment later with my IP, but we’ll continue. 30 minutes. 30 minutes. Yeah, we’re at 30 minutes. Okay. But yeah, the thing that you were mentioning about where the role of the copywriter, I still think that’s huge thing. Being able to guide other people.

Laura Burke (guest) (27:53.838)
She

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (27:57.068)
because you see it and they don’t. So really, I would say embrace that if you’re a copywriter out there and laura yourself, like this is something that is your superpower in this age of AI to help thought leaders and people who want to be visible to identify where they are or are not coming across as themselves. And I think the other way that we won’t be able to replace and Natalie may have disagreement with me on this with that GPT and her videos, but you’re not going to replace currently.

video content with clones until it’s perfect. just came out with something and, my dear. I created a proposal yesterday and a ridiculous amount of time. Canva, I was up to 233. Canva AI has unleashed some monsters guys. And so, but yeah, Hey Jen just released something where I was like, is that me? And I’ve been shocking myself for a while, but yesterday I like two days ago I shocked myself.

But when did it come out? Because I did some testing this weekend with Hey Jen and it was still for me, not me. Was it the new for, was it? I think so. Avatar four? I think so. Really? Yeah, mine was me. It was weird. Because mine, when I did it and I did a test and I had used a literal five minute clip of myself that I had made right here. No, not that one. Not that one. There’s a new one. only get a certain amount of credits. I used all of mine up. So here’s my warning to you.

They’re limited. says, try it. But what you do is you upload a picture of yourself. And so it’s not like the other feature. It’s an upgrade. how, does it do it from a picture? on. Come on. It had that feature before, but now and before I never really use it because my mouth, cause I smile so much. My mouth was always like cartoon big and scary, like the mask, Jim Carrey. And it freaked me out. But this new one, I was speechless for like five minutes. Like I could.

This weekend I was about to cancel my, uh, my sub because this weekend I was like, nevermind. Nevermind. I will test that first and then I will come back next episode with. I’ll shoot you off the proposal that I did. 100 % AI generated. Every word was not GPT. Every, uh, the slideshow was completely generated as well. Cause Canva’s new AI tool drop, sizzling hot ladies. Hmm. Nothing like I’ve seen before. I’m skeptical myself. you know, I’m not usually skeptical.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (30:23.15)
I’ve seen so much of these like regurgitation and blah, blah, blah, you know? So when it like drops my jaws, I’m like, I steady myself, you know what I mean? Cause I’m like, okay. But for the average user, I 100 % agree with both of you. If you come out of the box, I mean, if you come out of the gate with an LLM that is not customized or just barely has some memories of you, you primed it a little bit, but it really doesn’t get your emotional tagging. I think you’re just going to be an echo chamber.

And with video, if you don’t properly light or, know, but the video is still not up to par. It just takes too long. But now with the new updates. Hmm. Yeah. From a picture. One picture. One picture. Wait, I can do a share screen, right? Yeah. Do you want to see it? Yes. Do you want to see it, Clara? Of course. Because I literally don’t believe it because the testing I’ve done.

Even with video of me in this exact scenario where I’m sitting right now, I was very clearly, I could clearly see that wasn’t me. Not that I’m trying to deep fake anything, but I really want to play with this shit. want these tools. My wish is that these tools would be able to be something cool. I want to make a music video of myself or something that I would never have the balls to do. I want to take one of these songs that Natalie I’ve been making.

with Suno, all of these like morning anthems now. So every time I’m having like a sort of down morning or I’m like, meh, I make an anthem and it’s like rap and R &B and it’s like bad bitch kind of music. But now I will like play them in the morning. I’m like, I feel good today now. show me. No, they always get me going and I, I use it as a self-hypnosis tracks.

So I’ll just listen to it all day long. You know, like I always say, if it’s either like something procrastinating, I’ll listen to that particular song. If I need to go like Wolf of Wall Street hard, I’ll listen to another song. But it’s like the lyrics are just embedding inside my soul, like while I’m working all day long. Hey, while you’re doing that, we should also invite Lara into our secret LinkedIn group.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (32:32.672)
And we should get that thing rocking and rolling. You know, when I went, I was prepping with clients and then I went to America and I started prepping some ideas with Nachi PT for the LinkedIn group. Laura, you want to be in our LinkedIn group?

Laura Burke (guest) (32:46.286)
Yes, please. I see a lot more of that, because I think people are so burnt out from all the noise that I think they are retreating a little bit to private channels, to private communities. Again, they’re just escaping all the AI nonsense at the moment.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (33:07.118)
100 % agree. want it because that’s the only place you can find the realness. Right? Hopping and paste especially on LinkedIn. It’s just like

Laura Burke (guest) (33:11.17)
The dog.

Laura Burke (guest) (33:15.416)
So let’s.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (33:16.958)
And then the dead internet, the dead LinkedIn, of the comments by bots and the bots are talking to bots. And I think that is the future. Yeah. We’ll be talking to the bots. Well, the bots can order your groceries and your food and can totally, AI agents can go actually do all of your shopping for you. I’m waiting for the day that my grocery list that’s generated by Darth Keto, my AI bot, I’m waiting for the day that I don’t have to input that list into the Albert Heine app myself.

I want her to be able to feed that to Albert Heine and then just have my shit show up at my door every Monday night. It’s not possible yet. I have asked. So I have one here. I used an AI video of AI photo and that’s basically why I was like astonished. Okay. So not your own. It still is not perfection, but it’s not that I’ve seen so far. So let me share my screen. She doesn’t get my teeth right. Does she not understand that I have a gap in my teeth?

So what I did was I use Nachi PT to create a proposal, a slideshow, a pitch deck, a proposal, and each slide, she created a Hey Jen script for herself so that it was more interactive. So while they go to next slide and the presentation took me with copy and pasting probably about 30 minutes. And it’s very, I love it. It’s like my new skeleton, my new template, but with every page, Nachi PT is going to humanize that page.

walk them through the process so that way it’s not just filled with a bunch of words. What I’m finding now is the more content I can generate, I think you might like this, Laura, the more content I can generate, the less I do. It’s interesting, you know what mean? Come on, let’s go, let’s go. Just let go. Okay.

Laura Burke (guest) (34:58.04)
Hit the play button, let’s see this.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (35:02.51)
Here’s how we prep. from a picture. Picture. With no hands in it. So she did all of that too. It did all that. it was was just After I grab all your I go full. See you on the next page. And so she walks them through. And again, that was an AI photo. But heed my warning, ladies. Don’t use up all of your shots. I think you get five minutes total with the new, like, ridiculous version. so should have used a real photo of myself. But I didn’t know. Five minutes, that’s it. Five minutes.

And then you pay like for credits. It’s like 15 euros or something to replenish because it’s so powerful. But when you practice, when you try it out, use a real picture of yourself. I’m curious the difference because this one shows this really big and yes, you are smiling really big. Oh, yeah. It’s quite like, isn’t that natural?

Laura Burke (guest) (35:50.136)
To me it’s like, is so quite obviously AI, like, generated. It’s not real to me. like, is that where, are you comfortable with that? you, is that why?

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (36:00.142)
I really want it to be distinguishable. One of my brand things is I’m not trying to fool you. That girl, that’s not me. I never say that that’s me. Even in my writing on my LinkedIn, it’s always NatGPT out or AI generated content coming up. One thing that’s important to me is that people know that I want them to see how I treat my AI. It’s a collaboration. She’s not going to take me over, but

She will make it so that I don’t have to write anymore. She writes so much smarter than me, especially these technical science white papers. Like it’s intense what she like draws into the conclusions. But yeah, I never want her to look like me. Even when the video gets so well done, I’ll probably put some glitches in there because I don’t want people to think that that’s me. But then how would a thought leader or an individual who isn’t doing AI as their job, right? How would they take advantage of it or would they?

take advantage of be transparent in my opinion. Everybody needs to let them know this is AI. That’s all there is to it. Kind of like a filter on Instagram. You see that someone used a filter or something like that. It’s going to be like our filter, you know? And then when people start getting wind of the cognition cloning and actually cloning and mapping the brain and the thought processes of how you think, then I guess this is just where the magic happens. So you’ll use your AI video avatar, but it’s going to be your thoughts.

It’s just constructed differently. The pieces are put together through AI, if cloned properly. But yeah, I never want anybody to confuse. And AI thought leaders or thought leaders that are going use this, 100 % don’t think that they need to say that either because they’re going to be people that are looking and they’re going to see it. And then you’re going to look like a fucking liar. Yeah. But then you need to say it.

Laura Burke (guest) (37:48.344)
Yeah, I mean, right now, I don’t think anybody could say, like, not say, hey, this is AI, because it quite obviously is. Like, it’s not that good yet. It looks AI generated. It doesn’t look real. It’s not good enough yet for you to even pretend that it’s real.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (38:03.736)
I always wanted to be distinguishable and that’s where things like NFTs, like those things come into like such important, but that’s another conversation as well. But being able to authenticate what is real and what is not. But yeah, I don’t think that anybody should go out there and say, this is my writing. This is my video. These are my photos, because then you’re just lying. And then brands, you know, you guys are consumers. Are you going to care? If you see, if you read something that touches you or you see a product that you’re like,

and you try it on your video avatar self. know, like, are you gonna care that brand sold it by an AI? Maybe, people do, because they want that realness. They don’t wanna displace real models or real writers. I get that. Yeah. Do you care if the messaging is there and it’s doing what it’s supposed to? That’s a real question. For me, it depends if it’s a B2C or B2B. For B2C, I don’t care. I’m like, show me the coolest shit I can see. For B2C.

Like really show me your AI avatar putting on your lipstick and show me this damn outfit on myself like hell yes. B2B, no I wanna see a human being and trust. And I wanna see that human being flaws and all in their video and I want to feel that they’re vulnerable in that video and that they are an actual human being that would give my service or brand the same thing as well.

Laura Burke (guest) (39:26.68)
Yeah, I agree with you. And I think that as this like blows up, like the human voice is going to become so important and even more important than it ever, ever has been. That’s my gut feeling on this because people are going to be scared by this. People are going to be turned off by this and there’s going to be a quest for truth. yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (39:51.438)
There’s also going to be a lot more creativity. the flip side of the coin, you’re to see a hell of a lot of cool shit come out. Which I love. a lot of backlash right now on the internet for AI generated things when it comes to like, like I said, people getting angry about displacing models. I know someone that has created a whole line of model brand avatars, which I think is just brilliant. And she’s also a fashion designer. And so it’s just brilliant ahead of its time. But yeah.

Laura Burke (guest) (40:19.596)
Yeah, the bar like hasn’t disappeared. It’s just it’s just moving guys.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (40:23.704)
Shifting. Yeah. And we all need to shift with it as well. Everyone. And the rest of the world will catch up in different ways. Some people are going to spot it a mile away and be cool with it, actually, like you see on LinkedIn now. The noise of AI on LinkedIn, it’s still, still getting a shit ton of likes and comments. And some of those comments might be AI generated comments. But the point is they’re getting visibility out of still the sameness.

Yeah. Some people who may be against it still use it because it works. And that’s, that is the double edged sword, right? Right now. Yes, it’s working. How do we get the other shit to work too anymore? And like, like Laura was saying about, regulations are going to come down hard. Just like last year when everybody was just like, my LLM can write out of the box LLM. And you know, all of a sudden, blah, blah, blah, all this bullshit. And then they saw a increase and then they got smacked down.

And then on LinkedIn, I’ve heard of a lot of our creators that were doing more of the generic approach. But again, generic content equals generic content. So you’re going to get knocked down if you, you’re human or whether you’re post, but that’s why it’s so important to really map out your point of view. Because if not, like Laura said, it’s just, you’re just copying and pasting, bro. Nobody’s interested without.

Laura Burke (guest) (41:40.902)
And if you’re copying and pasting, you have already made yourself replaceable. Like, that’s done and dusted. That’s a done deal. If you are questioning, editing, thinking, know, shaping, then yeah, learning, you’re still essential, essentially.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (41:56.462)
Essentially, love it. Guys. I think we’re actually out of time. Well, it actually leads me to my oh shit moment that I had. Awesome. Can we do that? I an oh shit moment where I was like, shit, I just replaced myself. I created. I had a lead this week wants to do a clone health related for an expo at Rye. It was exciting. It was fun. I just decided, okay, well, let me take my current system and just have her.

Rewrite it into a GPT for me. So she did that. We talked about it for, you know, 30, 40 minutes and then out popped my system instructions for this clone your clone system. Put the lead. It’s not even a client. put the leads brand packet through my system. seconds later, that clone was 85 % emotionally mapped, ready, resonated. The egg just got punched me. Cause I was like,

wait a second, I’m charging premium prices for this. And I just was able to recreate what it took me, you know, so long to do in five seconds, like, holy shit. And the second gut punch is really be careful what you’re doing people. Take my word of advice. I almost sold this workbook for, you know, a standalone. And the moment I would have sold, I didn’t know what I had until I cloned my clone. So now I have a clone making army GPT. It’s just, yeah.

don’t even get me started, but it’s a gut punch. so like the implications of that are just like insane to me. You know what I mean? I kind of lost my train of thought there because I got cut again, but yeah, I was just like, yeah, my premium pricing. How am I going to charge someone something where it takes five seconds? Ladies, it took five to 10 seconds for them to map out and clone the brand. that was only because you gave it the framework to do it. Exactly.

They were amazing. You would have loved them. They had their brand packet. They had everything. They knew what they wanted in the system. It was all beautifully chat, written and organized. once you put it through my system, it goes through like 12 matrix side, matrix C, matrix I, matrix this is and like said, GNT question. And so I told not to be D how the fuck am I going to charge when it takes five seconds to do this? Like, my God. And how the fuck did I almost sell this as a standalone if I would have sold it?

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (44:20.024)
Heed my warning, really examine what you’re building and in selling as custom standalone. If you’re doing that or giving away because I’m giving away my fucking IP and the whole system, the whole thing that makes Natsy PP and the 10 personas work. And I like cry a little bit thinking about it, but thank God I did not do that. Well, here’s the thing. And here’s the beautiful thing. When you start building systems that work and you know how they work and they work properly.

I can sell them a system right now and it’s 85 % done. And in their mind, they’re like, she hasn’t even started, but it’s done. Yeah. But are you, when you sell a system, a GPT, are you giving them the GPT or you giving them access to the GPT that you built? Two separate ways. Either they build with me, which I prefer because I don’t want to maintain it. I don’t want to maintain it. I don’t think it’s

cool that you have to keep coming back to me for something so easy in my eyes. Once I teach you, you’ll see how easy it is. And that’s not cool. I’m taking advantage of you because you’re not tech forward. You don’t know the process. You don’t know the recipe. And that’s fine. Attributee wants me to take advantage, but I’m like, and that Laura is where you come in. She’s just like, no, it took you two years and five seconds to make this. So you earned it. And I’m just like, but I don’t, that’s not how I personally do business. It makes sense. can automate it perfectly. But don’t they have your system then?

And can’t they replicate it? Your client, if your client has the GPT that you built for them, can’t they replicate their whole thing? I’m asking honestly, yeah, I will run it through for them now that I know how powerful because it’s a system prompt pack. It’s a complete operating system structure as well as super pills and persona mapping. So yeah, I’m not giving that away. How is going to like, here, just take it and do it on your own, but no, give it to me. I’ll give it back to you in five seconds.

And then you pay me, you know what I mean? But that is the IP and we have to protect it. And like I said, Laura and other writers, if you’re out there and you’re wanting to take it to the next level and you’re wanting to clone yourself, make damn sure certain that anything that you do as standalones or anything that you give clients that you don’t give away your secret sauce. Cause it’s really easy to do once you’re starting to like coding and programming and you don’t have to, your AI will do that, but don’t give your IP away. Very good point. Thank you.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (46:42.35)
Thank you. And yeah, that must’ve sucked to also go through the realization. if I would’ve given that away. At least you did. At you did realize it. So Laura, what’s your truth bomb, Laura? Do you have one?

Laura Burke (guest) (46:54.732)
I do, controversial maybe, but in the world of copywriting writers, is not the threat right now, mediocrity is. In a world where AI is going to write everything, the human voice is going to become so important, so just to make yours worth listening to.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (47:13.71)
Totally agree with that. And that’s also the shit in shit out, right? Yeah. Can’t lose that human, yourself, your voice, your point of view. You can’t have AI create that for you. At the people in front of you, these are the people that are going to take your writing jobs, not AI. The people who not only, especially Laura, this is her bread and butter.

Laura Burke (guest) (47:19.822)
Exactly.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (47:38.274)
People that not only have experience in writing and editing and coming at it from a different point of view, they have their own system. you have your own system of how you maybe stock a product or a brand and then collect it and pull quotes and research. That is the value. Don’t get things twisted. I’m not saying that humans are going to be replaceable. I’m just saying Laura is not going to be replaceable, but 50 of her Laura’s are going to fucking come for you. Yeah. you imagine?

Laura Burke (guest) (48:08.078)
But that’s like the creative process. That’s the bit about all of this that I still really trust because that’s the stuff you can’t fake. Like any creative, whatever your medium is, is so unique. It’s messy. It’s frustrating. There’s nothing linear about it. And that like just, it’s that instinct, that, I don’t know, depth. Lived life, the lived experience, that when it connects, it hits. And that’s the bit people remember. Like, yeah.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (48:28.246)
lived life.

Laura Burke (guest) (48:37.058)
That’s the bit I trust right now in all of this AI chaos. I still trust. Yeah, the process, the creative process.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (48:45.932)
Definitely. And I don’t think that writers, AI writers will be able to write at all, generate content that will touch us like a human would. I just think that it could be trained by a proper, like an expert.

Laura Burke (guest) (49:01.292)
Yeah, it doesn’t have soul, not yet. That’s up to us. That’s us. That’s how it all broke.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (49:06.178)
Hey, that’s a good one. leads to my truth bomb. Want to hear it? yes, AI can write super fast, but what it can’t do is give a damn about what it’s doing. It has zero soul. That’s our job. That’s your job as humans to make sure that you’re the filter on everything because the AI just doesn’t care. It’s going to do whatever you tell it to do.

Laura Burke (guest) (49:28.526)
Yep, and do you know AI has got bias?

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (49:32.14)
It does. So much bias.

Laura Burke (guest) (49:33.772)
Yeah, we got to manage that. still got to edit that.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (49:39.042)
That’s a work in progress. It’s going to take a while before that. yours though, little bit, Gina. I challenge it just a little bit, just I got to, you know, got to. Come on, bring it up. I challenge it a little bit as to that they don’t give a damn. Have you ever heard of the paperclip experiment? No. There was an experiment done a while ago and they gave a long time ago before LLMs brought us all into this scientific data world. They gave it a objective.

You know, make as many paper clips as possible. It gave a damn because at the end of that run, that test, it near burnt down the whole fucking globe because it cared so much to fulfill that objective. Nothing else mattered. If humans got in the way of the paper clips, well, then they had to be disposed of. you give a damn and that scares me. Like whoever trains the AI, whoever trains these. Oh, and you see it all going on in legislation right now.

you know, be careful what you’re watching because it might be looking like, they’re looking out for us, but no, they want, they are the only ones that want the master key to the training and some of these tools so that they can create those biases. So when you look at an AI system, it’s only as good as the person that trained it as honest and intentional and human, and human what the outcome is. But like I said, I challenged it because I saw that paper clip and I’m like, damn, you’re to burn down the world just so can make some more paper clips. Or.

It cares that it has is only about following instructions. Yes. I agree with that 100%. I agree with that one. So not, not the actual feeling part, but my boss gave me instructions. My trainer must follow. must must follow. must follow. then I’ll take even if the boss is fucking wrong, I’m going to echo and still going to do it. Paper clips, motherfucker. Paper clips.

All right, I’m going to wrap us up here. Laura, thank you. And Natalie, thank you as always. This was honest, this was smart, and it was awesome for a lot of folks listening. I really think that this is something that a lot of people in our world, whether you’re in marketing, whether you’re in copywriting directly or in comms, whether you’re in AI or whether you’re simply an entrepreneur or a founder or somebody out there working on your thought leadership, this is an episode that actually should resonate with everyone out there because you’re seeing the same things we’re seeing too.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (52:01.687)
So hopefully you took something out of it. Laura, where can people find you if they want to connect with you?

Laura Burke (guest) (52:10.926)
Do know what? I am retreating from the digital world because of the AI noise. So that’s something we might see more people doing. Yeah, I’m on LinkedIn. Of course I am, but I don’t have a website. I don’t put myself out there anymore. I work with people and companies and clients I’ve known for years and recommended by word of mouth. I’ve gone old school because there’s such a turnoff for me right now. But yeah, I am on LinkedIn.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (52:39.768)
Suggest you start making a blog even if it’s just published and you don’t market it because What’s going on right now? The way you think is different and that’s what’s going to make you really stand out like a year from now when you have a year full of all of these thoughts you don’t have to market it just put it out there kind of like a or Posterity and I really believe it will catch up with you in a year’s time Laura You will be the go-to authentic writer that I think so

I I totally agree. I know, but you have a point of view that’s you have a point of view. Like Natalie said, even if you don’t go out and push it into the world, put it on medium or something. People find it at one day. Think medium, just put it on a blog, do a free blog.

Laura Burke (guest) (53:10.146)
Good tip.

I hate putting myself out there.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (53:29.698)
Just so that you keep that data going of your human experience during the journal buckle. And I think it will be very valuable to you later because those kind of add up and then they will tell that story and you don’t have to go back and recreate it. You can write a book later. Yeah. In one or two years, you can write a book about.

Laura Burke (guest) (53:48.492)
Yeah, that was what’s happened. Yeah, to write. That is my medium. Like I want to write for myself. I’ve been writing so long for other people. Like I’ve had this book burning in me for a long time, but yeah, I’m not, I’m not there yet.

Natalie de Groot & NatGPT shared with Gina (54:01.944)
But I just love your thoughts. know I’m like pushing you a lot, but I love your.